The VoiceBox Podcast

20 - How To Build A Winning Business Model: Dylan Ogline

November 09, 2020 Christopher Romance, Simon Weis, Dylan Ogline Season 1 Episode 20
The VoiceBox Podcast
20 - How To Build A Winning Business Model: Dylan Ogline
Chapters
2:03
Dylan's Story
5:03
Be Lean, Mean & Scrappy
9:00
The Challenge of Online Sales
16:20
Narrow It Down
20:50
Focus On Marketing
30:35
Does Your Product Fit the Market?
39:00
Charge Based On Value, Not Market Prices
The VoiceBox Podcast
20 - How To Build A Winning Business Model: Dylan Ogline
Nov 09, 2020 Season 1 Episode 20
Christopher Romance, Simon Weis, Dylan Ogline

For more info please visit: www.VoiceBoxMe.com ⬇️
Checkout Dylan Ogline:  or https://oglinedigital.com/

Podcast Description: Today's segment is Entrepreneur Connoisseur! Where we take an inside look at the mind of entrepreneurs, deciphering how it is they have succeeded in their field, and inspire you to achieve that same success. Today's guest is  Dylan Online who is a 7 figure digital agency marketing expert who has gone form being a high-school drop out to a multi million dollar entrepreneur!

Our Links:

-Share This Podcast & Leave us a 5🌟 Rating and Review!



Skillshare - Learn How To Podcast
Sign up for Skillshare and get 2 Months Free Membership, and also check out our course on Podcasting

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/voicebox)

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

For more info please visit: www.VoiceBoxMe.com ⬇️
Checkout Dylan Ogline:  or https://oglinedigital.com/

Podcast Description: Today's segment is Entrepreneur Connoisseur! Where we take an inside look at the mind of entrepreneurs, deciphering how it is they have succeeded in their field, and inspire you to achieve that same success. Today's guest is  Dylan Online who is a 7 figure digital agency marketing expert who has gone form being a high-school drop out to a multi million dollar entrepreneur!

Our Links:

-Share This Podcast & Leave us a 5🌟 Rating and Review!



Skillshare - Learn How To Podcast
Sign up for Skillshare and get 2 Months Free Membership, and also check out our course on Podcasting

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/voicebox)

Chris:

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the voice box podcast, a steady voice of reason in truth to stay afloat in a sea of confusion. My name is Chris.

Simon:

And I'm Simon.

Chris:

And today's segment is entrepreneur kind of sewer, where we take an inside look at the minds of entrepreneurs deciphering how they have succeeded in their field, and inspiring you to achieve that same success. Today, we have none other than Dylan O'Brien himself, a self propelled successful entrepreneur who has gone from being a high school dropout to owning a seven figure digital agency.

Simon:

We're honored to have Dylan on the show today. But before we dive into the actual interview, we want to remind your listeners to subscribe to our Patreon, giving you access to behind the scenes content, like bloopers, and soon to be private patron only podcasts. So make sure to support the show, because otherwise, we might be forced to put it behind a paywall. And thank you so much for supporting the show. We really appreciate you guys so much.

Chris:

So Dylan, what's really interesting to me personally about your story, honestly, is how you have gone from being a high school dropout, which is what I am I dropped out in grade nine to two just sort of owning your field and becoming incredibly successful entrepreneur earning, like we said, over seven figures in revenue. And, and for me, and also for our listeners who I know are probably like, Whoa, how did he do it? We want to know like, how is it that how you come from this place where people would tell you that you're never gonna succeed, you're never gonna make it. You're just a high school dropout punk. And then it's like, I'm never gonna make it, but you did. And it gives us a lot of hope and encouragement that, hey, if he can do it, maybe I can do it, too. So what we really want to know Dylan just start off is, What's your story? How did that happen? And how did this unfold to go from high school dropout to who you are today?

Dylan Ogline:

Sure. So I am going to give kind of an unexpected answer here. Ah, awesome. Because it you know, it kind of new kind of new question like this was was coming from you guys after after talking pre show and whatnot. Right? Yeah, so come on, my answer would be is first, I would say a lot of people who hate saying like I come from adversity or something like that, because I certainly didn't I consider myself extremely privileged. But you know, I did drop out of high school. And that's not exactly smart. And yeah, a lot of people who come from something like that, or they come from adversity, or whatever, they kind of have this I did it all myself. They believe they're self made. And I am very much so against that I believe that we all have helped along the way. So for me a big thing again, this is an unexpected answer is gratitude. is silly kind of example, for me is literally where business started for me. Like where I was like, I really want to get into business and own my own businesses and whatnot, was I picked up the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki, which I recommend everybody read. And it wasn't like I was driven. And I was like, Oh, I need to find a business book. Like literally, that was just a book that my brother had, my brother was reading, and it was just sitting around the house and I picked it up, and I just engulfed everything in that book, I loved every word of it. And he's not let that book, the you know, if he wasn't reading that book, I probably wouldn't be where I am today. And so I consider that luck, or a blessing or whatever you want to call it. And for me, by having that kind of, you know, nobody is self made, and having gratitude and being thankful for all those things. It allows you to be kind of flexible. So I never think that I'm always right. I always think that I'm learning and I'm always probably wrong. And I think that that attitude. And I really believe that having that kind of the opposite of a cocky attitude of not thinking you're always right, of just always questioning things. And always trying to improve. That was probably the biggest thing. For me. I mean, sure, there's a lot there's a lot to say where, which I could talk a lot about how you you have to be just relentlessly you know, I there's no way I'm going to fail. You have to keep working and grinding and all of that. Right. But if you just have that, but you go into it with an attitude of I'm always right, you're probably gonna fail.

Chris:

Before pride comes with the fall, right? It's like yeah, you're gonna sit there and think that you're all that and a bag of potato chips. It's it's not it's not going to work out well for you because humility is the sort of foundation of success, because with humility, you can recognize your faults. And by recognizing your faults you can improve. Absolutely, man,

Dylan Ogline:

that is a perfect way of putting it. Yes, yeah.

Simon:

Yeah, I totally resonate with what you just said Dylan. Absolutely, because I had that attitude that no leader stands alone. And because the reason for that is that a leader, what is a leader without followers, who is a leader, if not somebody to lead, a leader can walk around by themselves and tell themselves, I'm so great. I'm incredibly great.

Chris:

I'm one of the greatest. I got the best words.

Simon:

Yeah, exactly. Nobody follows them. Who are they Leading the Leading themselves to the forest, I guess, who are leading here? I'm leading myself. That's great. And so I really resonate with that. And I actually want to know, because one thing that you mentioned in our previous conversation that we had, like the pre meeting that we had, you mentioned that when you're building things, you're building things to break, but also, you have to be lean and mean, and you have to be scrappy, when you're starting a business. Yes. And that's why it'll bring success that business. And I would like for you to kind of elaborate on exactly what you mean by that.

Dylan Ogline:

Sure. So so this is like, specifically business advice, because I believe in, you know, a lot of people, when they're, when they're starting their business, they think, oh, it has to be perfect and whatnot. So they'll spend, you know, six months, a year, two years, and I certainly made this mistake, you know, I spent 12 years struggling. And the problem was, is that I never actually launched anything, because I was just convinced that was like, Well, before I do that, it has to be perfect, I have to get everything in line, I have to have a nice logo, and I have to have business cards, and I have to do this and that. And the truth is that none of that shit matters, like what matters, specifically in business is is proving your product market fit. So I teach, you know, that lean mean and scrappy, like, you want to get the absolute simplest, in the tech space, it's called the MVP, or a minimal viable product or service, the absolute simplest version of your product or service out into the marketplace, improve the people act that there actually is a need for that people actually want the service. And the easiest way to do that is to actually get people to give you money. Like if you don't want to just ask a bunch of people and like go to your potential clients and be like, Hey, you know, I have this service, would you be interested in it, because people will lie to you to be nice, they know, the best way to do it is to prove the best way to prove your product market fit. And it's very simple to actually get somebody to give you money. And what I recommend doing is, you know, this doesn't work for 100% of cases, but people overestimate, you know, oh, I need to have all these things in line. You know, if you have a product or whatnot, actually sell the product before you ever have it built. Yesterday, I did a show and we were talking about, you know, like info products, courses and programs. And you know, I have one myself, like, that's the big thing these days is online education. And my advice was, like, sell the course, before you ever build it. Like don't even have Don't even start building the program, until you actually sell it. And this is not like some scammy thing, like if if you sell somebody you know, a program or a course and and then you don't end up building it just refund their money, you know, apologize greatly and be like, Hey, I'm sorry, I didn't end up building it. Because it does add a reason, but just giving their money back. But don't spend two years building a program or a course or a product or service, then to only find out that there's actually no demand in the marketplace.

Chris:

Yeah, and you know, you know that we are in the process of building our business, that we feel that there is a demand in the marketplace, because, well for multiple reasons, because podcasting is growing through the roof, and everybody wants to get in it. But no one knows how to do it properly. And so while some people know how to do it properly in there,

Dylan Ogline:

and what did I tell you guys in our previous A lot of people don't start selling it before you even build it.

Chris:

Yeah. And I think that's that's a really big challenge, especially for entrepreneurs like like us or people that are I don't know if what you would define entrepreneur, if you if you make enough money, then you're an entrepreneur. I don't know. For me, it's some anybody's trying to

Simon:

think it's mindset to be honest.

Dylan Ogline:

If you start a business Dude, you Yeah, you're doing something. Yeah, yeah.

Chris:

Yeah, exactly. So I mean, yeah, that's, that's a big challenge. Because it's like, okay, that's great. Sell it. How, you know what I mean? Like, how do you actually do it with a digital market? It's like, okay, like when I had a painting business, I told me and I've talked about this many times before. Yeah, it is so much easier to sell painting services or start a business, a physical business, so so so, so much easier, because literally, if I was doing painting business, I would just go door to door, offer free estimates, and then do the estimates and I had a 70% sales ratio and I would get these clients but with online, it's like, what do you do? How do you how to I don't know where to get the people. I don't know how So it's like, it's even more challenging for a digital business to do what you're saying than it is for a. And I think that's the challenge. I think that's the biggest hurdle in my opinion, because it's our biggest hurdle right now is like, great. How, you know? And and that kind of makes me want to ask you, how how, how would you recommend someone like us, or just anyone out there that's starting a business that's in our same position where we're like, okay, we have a product, but how do we sell it? Where do we go? How do we do it? What would be your recommendation?

Dylan Ogline:

There's a vantastic. Question. And Yep. What were the words used? Where and how you're asking the wrong question? Okay. Who need to be asking Who? Okay, think of it this way? All right. So I come from, you know, I own a digital marketing agency, right? Yep. So it is incredibly difficult. So the answer to this is to niche down. Okay, that's, that's the short, very quick, one line and one one sentence answer niche down. Alright. So So think of it this way. Imagine if if I, as a digital agency owner, I go to all these different businesses. And I'm like, we offer digital agency services, you need a website, we can do it for you, you need a digital marketing services, we can do it for you, you need a logo, we can do it for you. Alright, first and foremost, it's incredibly difficult to be the best at that stuff. Because you're doing everything for everybody. It's incredibly difficult to be the best in the world at everything. But let's take that a little bit further. Okay. So instead of saying, you know, you know, I'm going to all these different businesses, and I say, I, you know, I can help you this, I can help you with that. Imagine narrowing it down and saying, We specifically do direct response, digital marketing, we can help you grow. Well, that sounds a little bit better, right?

Simon:

Yeah. Okay. So

Dylan Ogline:

that might interest to company. Okay, I'm looking to grow this company, they does they do direct response marketing. Okay, that sounds that sounds intriguing. Let's take it one step further. Okay. I specifically help plumbing and heating companies grow and get more install projects with direct response, digital marketing. Now imagine if you're a plumbing and heating company, and you hear that, it's like, Oh, okay. Alright, so this guy only helps only helps my industry. And then there was also a key thing I said in there. Notice I said, install projects, I don't say just get more clients. Now, what is that? What is the value in that? I am saying install projects, because in this particular example, I know the plumbing and heating industry, and that's an industry that's a vertical that I work in that, you know, I have clients in that industry, and they are more interested in install projects, because installed products are easier, they have higher margins, you know, the clients or the customer is not always calling them back, you know, to repair this and that it's easiest easier, you know, you're not diagnosing a problem, if that if they would much rather have those repair projects, right. So I said that in my, you know, headline, or whatever I just said, You know, I specifically help plumbing eating companies grow and get more install projects. As a plumbing heating company. He's like, Damn, this guy not only helps my industry, he specifically knows that I only that I'm most interested in install projects. And then when I jump on a call with him, I will be able to talk about like, Listen, I know that in your industry, you know, you get install projects have higher margins, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so that right there, that you you just solved the problem of sales, that person you're, when you when you position yourself like that the person is already sold by the time they jump on a phone call with you. Yeah, so the answer is is who you know, to not try to convince people not try to get good at sales, not try to blanket all these industries it is to try and get his niche down and as narrow down as you can. So that when you catch the attention, which is actually relatively easy catch the attention of potential customers, they're already sold by the time they jump on a call with you or visit your website or whatever.

Unknown:

Interesting.

Simon:

Yeah, that's interesting,

Chris:

because that's actually something that me and Simon had struggle with the most I think and since we last spoke in our pre meeting before our podcast recording, you had given us some information I went ahead and created an Excel spreadsheet for all the services I think we can offer and and I'll show it to you at some point in time hopefully. And what's what's interesting about that is like you're saying you know, offer very niche very niche market offered to a very niche market. And that's something we're not doing because literally on our what I call the client cost analysis sheet literally we offer like everything from but but the thing is though, and what's interesting and challenging for the industry that we're going into is like these things are actually necessary like image production and like thumbnail production and like so. Yeah, all a lot of these things are like necessary for the production and management of a podcast, but I think I will run with your idea and some degree in The way that I think we will do it is we'll offer very tight services in the sense that it's like this is like our service and this is our other service and make them not as flexible and create tears, I'm definitely going to use that information because I think that's one of the things that we keep hearing from all the marketing people. And all the people that we've had on our podcast, it's always focused on niche niche, niche, niche, niche, niche, nation refining, refining, refining, refining, to a very, very specific person, like you said, Who, and that's amazing.

Dylan Ogline:

Now, one thing I would like to clarify, as you mentioned, like all these, which we did, you know, we talked about this before the show, uh, again, I don't know a lot about your industry, but like, in my particular case, like, you know, we offer direct response digital marketing services, Well, okay, that's just summarizing it, right. But when we onboard a client, like, sometimes we might actually build their website, we're gonna build their landing page, we're gonna write the copy for their landing page, we're going to write the copy for the ads and probably come up with images for the ads,

Chris:

I say so like,

Dylan Ogline:

there is like, technically speaking like 10 different things that we do for them or whatever. But just direct response digital marketing. You really there. Oh, that exactly. So we come to them. And it's because I can I think we talked about this in the preacher like people don't care about you and all the specifics and all the the technical crap, no, they care about the results.

Simon:

They want a viable service. Yeah.

Dylan Ogline:

If fantastic video on this as look up, Simon, Simon Sinek, I believe is how you pronounce his last name. I wrote an incredible book called start start with why don't quote me on that. But that's pretty close. But he had a TED talk that talks about like apple and PC and TiVo and stuff like that, like people don't care if you don't give a damn about the specifics of a PC, or like, they just want to work. Yeah, they want it to work. And, you know, like apple, they position themselves as like, Are you the creative who's looking for a tool that can help you? You know, and the way he puts it is absolutely incredible. But that's a good way to think of marketing and whatnot. So like in your particular case, which again, I don't know a lot about podcast, like I would I would be like we offer podcasts management service. And okay, well, what is that? Well, we do this, but we specifically help sports podcasts, grow their audience, and you know, launch. And I don't know what the terms are in this industry. So I can't be perfect with it.

Chris:

Yeah, that's a that's a challenge. Because if we were to pick a niche, you'd probably close to our knees because we don't know, we don't know, sports. You know, we don't know Atlanta might be completely different to grow a sports podcast versus I mean, I don't think it'd be that much different, to be honest. But it is, that is an interesting point, you bring up

Dylan Ogline:

in terms of I feel like there's like, there's a lot of advice for your business here. Um, yeah, it is terms of like, the niche is a lot of people they overthink, they think that like, Oh, I need to know everything about that niche, or I need to, I need to have worked in that niche or that industry or whatever. Hmm. And a good way to think of it is, you only need just a little bit of an informational advantage, just a little bit. So like, I use that plumbing and heating example, it technically, we use the headline h fat companies, but same difference. The only reason I targeted that niche is at the time I lived in Pennsylvania, and I had a guy come in and store a solid new boiler in my house. And he was just a cool dude. And I just started chatting with them. And we ended up like going for beers and you know, grabbing a burger, and we would just end up talking about work. And that's how I grasped the idea of you know, he was like, man, I hate when people call me for these repairs. Like I just want to do a bunch of installs. You know, like the profit margins like 60%. It's in and out. People are so happy. They're not complaining. And that was it. That was my informational advantage. So then I just started targeting, you know, plumbing and heating companies. And they were just blown away that I knew a little bit about their industry. I knew that they didn't want repair projects, I knew that they wanted installs. So don't overthink, don't overthink that you need to know everything about a particular industry or whatever. Don't do that.

Chris:

Well, you know, you said that. It's like, Oh, I feel like I'm giving a lot of business advice for you guys. Yeah. And I think that's true. Because also Yeah, exactly. Because the listeners are listening to this or people that are trying to figure out how to achieve success as well. That's why we do the podcast and we're luckily in a position where we also need advice too. So it's like we get the advice from you give it to the listeners and everyone hopefully can take advantage of what Dylan's saying because he's been there, done that and do something with it.

Dylan Ogline:

Specifically, you guys I will I'll send you an invoice after the show for for my consulting services.

Chris:

I have a I have about $50,000 saved, so it should be enough to pay for it. And

Dylan Ogline:

that's a good downpayment. Yeah. And we offer payment plans. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. And

Simon:

actually, actually, I want to quickly mention speaking of services that we have a website called voicebox meet.com, where we actually offer services when it comes to creating a podcast. So if you're out there, as a listener, you own a business or you're a private person, and you're like, Well, you know what, I actually want to create a podcast, but I have absolutely no idea how to do it, or where to even start, then make sure to visit our website Voice Box b.com. And reach out to us. And I'm certain that we can we can figure out together what exactly it is you need to get started with your podcast today.

Chris:

Yeah. You can alternatively reach out to us at Voice Box ified@gmail.com. And we will Yeah. respond to you there. Okay, so Dylan, one thing that you mentioned, our previous conversation, is that you recommend that entrepreneurs simply switch their focus. And we've kind of talked about this already. But marketing is number one, that's actually something that when I read that as Wow, Hmm. Interesting that that's one of your, your main points is that the number one thing that you should be focusing on is marketing. But marketing is a big word big, incredibly big, one of the greatest big words the word. It's a big, really big word. And so my question to you is like, because I talked about before, about, like, I know how that looks like in a physical business with the physical product, it's very easy, because you can operate in the physical world to do a lot of your marketing where when it's a completely digital product, and that's what most people I think, are doing now as they're trying to launch digital products, because I feel like they're a little bit more reliable. And there's a higher profit margin more than likely. So what is it that you would recommend for entrepreneurs to do in this situation, if let's say they don't have, you know, $10,000 for marketing, and they really just want to get their business out there, they really want to launch your product, they've done the nice thing, they've narrowed it down, they got everything to go, what's next step? What do you do? Do you look for investors? What do you like? What would you recommend our young entrepreneurs, including, including ourselves, we can take information on this as well? Sure, sure.

Dylan Ogline:

So so the first thing is, there's a very, very, very few cases. And, and I would say probably 99.9% of them have to do with an actual physical product where you have to do like product development, where you need to take take on investors. But even with that, even with that, you probably should just, you know, do like a kick, you know, not necessarily Kickstarter, but a Kickstarter type of thing, where like, you get people to actually pay you, and then you use that money to to actually build the product. So my, there's, again, very, very few cases where somebody is starting a business and they need to take on investors. I don't I don't believe in that. For the vast majority of cases, you mentioned, you know, $10,000, to go towards marketing, uh, I think what marketing in general, you know, most people, they're thinking of Google ads, or whatever. And yes, 99% of the time, that's what it is, I guess it's probably client outreach, or customer acquisition, whatever you want to call it, that should be you know, behind, of course, delivering your product or service to your existing customers, that should be your number one priority, and it is your number one responsibility when it comes to growing your business. Hmm. So what does that look like? either there or there. Certainly, I like to think of it in two ways you have time methods, you know, methods where you're actually going to be investing your time, and then you have money methods, which, you know, obviously pretty simple, but, uh, you know, you could have, you know, be doing LinkedIn outreach, you could be doing, you know, warm email strategies, where that, let's say, you're targeting podcasts. So you find, you know, the, if your niche is sports podcasts, which I don't even know if that is a niche, I presume it is, you find, you know, the top 500 you know, sports podcasts, you know, and you find their, their contact us and you literally just reach out to them. Like, that's, that's it, or you reach out to them on LinkedIn and whatnot. Uh, you know, that's a lot of work, obviously. But if you have absolutely no money to invest, then that that's what you have to do until you get your first your first client or two. The The truth is, though, is, you know, a lot of people they're thinking that, you know, I would actually back up here The reason this is the number one priority is like you mentioned the, you know, the $10,000 Why do you think you need $10,000? You know, you obviously probably have $100, I mean, everybody has access to, you know, $100 to put towards, you know, on a credit card or something to buy some do or they can or they can't they can get that pretty easily. They can eat Exactly. Why don't people do that because they haven't proven that it works. And that right there is proof enough of why it is so important. Because I like to think of, like, in my particular case, with my agency, right now, I'm not taking on any new clients. But as sure as I am, that the sun will come up tomorrow, I know that I can log into, you know, Google ads, I have ads in there that I used to get clients, and I could turn on those Google Ads probably cost me a couple hundred bucks. And within a week, I'm gonna have, you know, five or six calls for like, maybe 500 bucks, and I'll be able to jump on calls with potential clients, and I'm probably going to get one or two of those clients. Hmm. And because I have that confidence, I know, like, okay, I want to I want to grow, I want to add a full time employee, what's the actual problem there? Like? What, why do people hold off on hiring an employee or whatever, it's because of the money, because they're scared that like, you know, I'm making this much money with my business. And if I, if I add this employee, am I gonna be able to afford them, me, I don't have that problem, because I have confidence in my marketing. And I think of it as silly as this may sound as like a faucet where Oh, I need more revenue, or I need new leads, or any new clients to come on, I just turn on the faucet and boom, I got more clients coming in, that gives you confidence in your business. And, you know, so you know, using the pocket again, I know nothing about the podcast industry, I don't know what you would charge, I know nothing about that. But in most cases, you know, if it's a business to business product like that, probably Google Ads wouldn't work. And you could probably come up with 100 bucks. And you could probably get leads for, you know, you know, 25 to 50 bucks each. So, you know, you're thinking of $10,000, and I'm thinking like, spend 100 bucks, and talk to a couple people to prove your product market fit. Now, again, this is like, that's the fast track, you can of course, do the whole LinkedIn thing and, and warm email and stuff like that. But if you want to fast track it, like within two to three days, you could probably have four to five conversations with potential clients for 100 200 bucks. That's how I think of it. And, you know, it's not this massive investment that you need to make with direct response marketing, especially with Google, Facebook's a little bit different. You can specifically target you know, your potential clients, and a very cheap and affordable rate.

Chris:

Huh?

Dylan Ogline:

Does that answer that question for you?

Chris:

It does. Yeah. And there's, there's definitely a lot more a good answer to to go into with all that. And that's, I think, like, the biggest problem that entrepreneurs have is we really don't know, like, we have a great idea. We shocker, but we don't really know, like, what's the best move. And that's why like, one of the things that we have in our pitch deck that we send to investors is like, we don't care about the money, like the money can be like, like $2,000 or $1,000. For investment, we don't care. It's more about having somebody that knows what they're doing coming alongside of us and be like, okay, dumb fools. This is what you do do this, this, this and that. We go, Okay, father, and then we go and we go do those things, and then make bank and split profits or whatever, right? Like, but it's like, when you're starting out? I think the biggest thing is like, Well, where do I go? Like, where do I look for information? Like, do I listen to this video on YouTube? Do I go over here? There's so like you said, there's so much information like in our pre harvest season, there's, there's so much information out there just everywhere of everything. And everyone's an expert on everything that's just like, geez, where do you go? And how do you? I think that's the biggest struggle is part of the reason why we do these entrepreneur commerce tours, has been bringing on experts like yourself dealing that can sort of guide our listeners, including us in a way that we can be more profitable, you know, and pay it forward, so

Dylan Ogline:

to speak, I would say, you know, in terms of the information, which I do believe we talked about this pre call. We have a lot for the listeners out there. We had a long, long pre call. It was amazing. It was a great conversation. I was told to get to the chopper.

Unknown:

You have to get to the chopper. Come on.

Chris:

I love that. I

Dylan Ogline:

love that. I don't know where I was going with that.

Chris:

Oh, I'm sorry. I distracted you are no Do you got me off.

Dylan Ogline:

So what I recommend is, you know, there obviously, is an infinite amount of information online, you could watch an infinite number of YouTube videos. And every minute there's, like 1000 hours, it was like, I think it's like 50,000 hours or launched on YouTube. You're never gonna watch it. Yeah, so the key is is to to recognize that information paralysis is a real thing. And the best thing to do is just, if you're following some, you know, I don't like to consider myself an expert. You're following somebody like me or some other dude or some girl who does YouTube ads or whatever. The truth is, is that the probably all right, the what what matters is is actually picking one following the strategy and then just taking absolute ruthless action. Hmm. That's what I think matters more than anything. I also wanted to mention one of the things I talked about, you know, spending the hundred bucks to, to jump on, you know, a couple calls with potential clients and get some, some leads or whatever. Yeah, a good thing to think of is and I tell my students, this is to kind of shift the, your mindset into thinking, Oh, I'm just trying to get some clients instead think I'm just trying to figure out if I have product market fit. So I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks to just fight to save you six months of going in the wrong direction, I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks to jump on a few phone calls with potential clients, even if I don't sell them, if I just find out a little bit more. And I either prove or disprove my product market fit that's worth the investment. By changing that mindset, you're become more like, Okay, I'm more willing to spend the money on that, to actually prove this, instead of spending, you know, how much is six months worth to you? Probably more than 100 or $200? Right? I mean, here's how it is for me?

Simon:

Yeah, it certainly is.

Dylan Ogline:

And the fastest way to, you know, skip ahead that three to six months is to simply jump on the phone with with potential clients.

Chris:

Interesting, some really amazing advice. And me and Simon definitely going to have our, our session where we talk about everything and like, you know, re and reimagine our, our direction with our business. And we can do, because that's a goal. I think that's part of the processes that Dylan is, like, when you're first starting out, I'm sure there's something similar to you, because you said you got nowhere for 12 years. Mm hmm. Until you figured out some stuff, knowledge in these these key, these key things can really just change so much for whether you succeed or fail. And it's kind of like, you know, why does? Why do we have this conversation with I don't remember, but it was on one of our podcasts where it's like, why does one artist succeed? You know, but somebody who makes a, you know, like, let's say, say voice acting, for example, right? Why does one voice actor so as an audiobook narrative done over 40 audiobooks, and I do currently just four on the side, I do work on fiber. That's it. And the rest of my time is spent doing this in the podcast business in the podcast. Um, there can be someone out there who is less skilled than me, but he's being paid more than me. And this actually kind of resonates with what you want to your point is, is that said stop hiding behind low prices. And for me, like when I first started out, first thing I did nothing about audiobooks, right? I said, Okay, they offered me $50 per finished hour. I'm like, Oh, that sounds pretty good. Well, it ends up taking about five hours to produce a one hour of audio. So make about 10 bucks an hour, which is garbage garbage. First, an actor Shut up, that is garbage. And so now I won't do anything less than 250. And I don't even do audiobooks, because most people won't pay that. So it's like, No, I'm not doing that. Because it's just, it's just I'm wasting my time. It's like you I'm not gonna sit there and, and work. It's like, if it was a skill that everyone could possess, and it was it everyone had the voice and everyone had all the requisite audio engineering and editing. Also, you need to learn in order to do the job, then Okay, yeah, if it's working, unskilled labor, pay me 10 bucks. But if it's skilled labor that you can't find anywhere else, it's like offering you Hey, Dylan, do you want to represent our business and be the marketing guy for our business for $10 an hour, you'd be like, I'm worth more than that. But and so. So what's really interesting is and actually reading that and hearing that from you, I've actually considered to up our prices for our business right now, which we thought was there are right, but I think we should go higher, because we know what we're doing. We're the probably, we've looked at our competition. And there's I can't say that anyone can compete. I mean, there's maybe there's something out there that I missed. That's like really good and already doing what we're trying to do. But I think that we should stop hiding behind low prices and put our true value forward. What do you think? What do you think like, and how does it What do you mean when you say, Stop hiding behind low prices?

Dylan Ogline:

Sure. So first, I'm going to address something you mentioned, like not everybody's willing to pay, in particular, the audio books which I know nothing about that industry, but but this is this is a good example. So I was talking earlier about sports podcasts. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, or a plumbing and heating companies. I'll use both of those examples. Alright. So with both of those situations, there is probably not a single service that you could offer to either those two industries, niches, whatever, whether you're offering digital marketing services or podcast management services, there is not a single service that you could offer that 100% of people would want. You could offer it for free, there's probably not 100% of people. Okay, because, you know, there's probably 5% of sports podcast or 5% of plumbing and heating companies, they're looking for the premium solution. They want the high end stuff. Okay, yeah, just like if if cars were free, if all of a sudden, tomorrow, you know, GM comes out with a free car, okay, there's probably a bunch of people who will say, No, thank you, I want an electric vehicle, or I want a luxury Mercedes, or I want to Ferrari sports car, okay, the money doesn't matter. So a lot of people get caught that Yeah, values, everything. A lot of people get caught in the trap of thinking that my service or my product, whatever needs to fit everybody. And because, you know, there's all these people who aren't willing to pay for it, you know, I need to lower my price and prices, the easiest way, you know, to get more to get more clients, when in reality, what you should be doing is offering the premium solution, the premium service, the premium product, whatever, and charging a premium for it. And will there be you know, whether you're doing digital marketing services for plumbing heating companies, or you're doing podcast management services for sports podcast, like 95% of the marketplace won't want your service, and that's okay, you don't want to talk to that. Okay, you want to be working with the people who doesn't matter of GM has a free car, they still want to have their, you know, hundred thousand dollar Tesla Model S, or, you know, whatever that situation is. So, if you're going I know nothing about, you know, voice work. But if you're charging $250 per finished hour, you only want to be working for the people or with the people who were willing to pay that which is not going to be on the market, it might only be 3% of the market. And that's okay.

Chris:

Right? What's actually counterintuitive about this, is that the jobs that that are that pay more, right, so for example, Ford build tough, built like a rock built like my house, I don't know, whatever, just fine, like that, is $1,000 a month, that's what Ford will pay you for that $50,000 to sit there and say something like nothing. And one of the things that you notice is that the higher paying jobs, the easier they are the the the the better the clients. It's like what? Absolutely. And I've noticed this too, because I went from audiobooks making $50 per finished hour, I did a bunch of books, it was just hell nightmare. I had to work like 16 hours a day, I was lost me. It was very rough. And I ended up breaking down and just like for a whole month couldn't work because I was just like, you know, it's like when you work so hard for so long. Your bodies and your brains like nope, nope.

Dylan Ogline:

Yeah, your front you got fried.

Chris:

Yeah, right. So um, but when I noticed and this section knows now fibers like I charge a not a whole lot. It's definitely ways you're so it's like, within like an hour or two, you can make 100 bucks, super easy, right? So it's like you're making anywhere from 50 to $100 an hour, USD and I live in Canada, so it's even more for me. But fiber is actually low paying, as well. And so it's interesting to that that's one of the reasons why I'm thinking that with our prices, like right now for each podcast, just audio engineering, mastering editing the podcast, doing something called called, which we do one time, which is a creative audio development, where we look at what it is that you want to do, and we help you structure a podcast, right, we charge $200. for that. I think we're gonna charge more because right now it's about 275 per episode. I don't think that's enough. I think that we should be charging 350 400 somewhere around there. And I'm not even sure what other people are thinking when we looked what was it Simon like other people were charging 1200 dollars, something like that

Unknown:

a month? Yeah,

Simon:

it was it was a pretty high amount. And we were like,

Chris:

well, I thought it was high. But now it's like, No, I don't think it is high. Yeah, I think that is that is that you should charge based on your value. And based on the client's value. It's like I got a $5 million revenue business and you want to represent me at $300 a podcast, but you know, that might be you know, so it's like, very, very counterintuitive, this information, but I have seen firsthand in my own voiceover business that yes. If you charge more, you'll find the right clients that are willing to pay and they're always better clients anyways. So absolutely. It seems like the people that suck usually don't have a lot of money. The people that are awesome, at least to work with in terms of services usually because because I would imagine that in most cases, not all because sometimes Daddy's money. But in most cases, those who have a lot of money to spend on services are those people that had to have the intelligence and the humility and everything else that's required in order to get there. And so that when you work with them, they're just generally easier to work with, because they're just more developed because they had to be in order to even give you that money.

Dylan Ogline:

Just like you Yeah, just like Dylan Dylan, one other thing you asked about, you know, hiding behind high, high demand low prices, but is the best thing to do is to be the premium product or premium service in your industry. You know, so if you're, you know, things, you know, I think I use the car example, okay, well think about how many people who buy like a, you know, a $15,000 Chevy Cruze, and they're like, this car is a piece of shit. Like it happens all the time. Well, yeah. What did you spend you spent $15,000 on a brand new vehicle, like, like that's going to happen. But how many people buy, you know, $180,000? Mercedes s 65 AMG? Which I think that's a correct model. Don't Don't hold me to it. How many people buy that car and are like, blown away by the quality that? Well, it's because Mercedes in that particular example, was charging a ridiculous amount. So they have to deliver ridiculous quality. So honestly, if you're like, on the low end of the spectrum, if you're providing the low end service, the low end Chevy, you're providing garbage and whatever, subconsciously, you're going to be like, oh, what the hell did you expect? Okay, so when, you know, when a client when a customer complaints to Mercedes, they're like, what's like, we have to change the stop everything, to fix your problem. It's a great product, because they're not hiding behind low prices, they are in front of really high prices. Whereas if you're behind low prices, subconsciously, everybody involved is like, well, what did you expect? And you know, that that's not only do you make more money, obviously, I get half your clients, you know, happier customers, it's a better working conditions, you're not fried, you're not miserable. Everybody's happier, it's just a better place to be.

Chris:

Yeah, hundred percent of the time.

Simon:

That's really what we want more than anything is happy clients.

Chris:

Yeah. And I feel like people might criticize all you're just greedy. You know, you're just greedy. But I think No, it's like, this is human nature, right? Like, why, for example, diamonds are rock. They're literally a rock, you know, they're a nice shiny rock. But because they're valued so high, we pay ridiculous amounts of money for in exchange for these shiny rocks that are just rocks that came out of the ground. Imagine if someone tried to sell you a piece of dirt, you know? And it's like, well, yeah, cuz it's rarer than dirt or whatever. I get it. But I mean, that's the same thing with business is like, you know, if you're gonna charge services, the whole

Dylan Ogline:

Yeah, the whole, the whole greed argument is just absolutely ridiculous. I mean, there are so many people who are greedy, by all means. But to think of it this way, let's go back to that Chevy Cruze and Mercedes example. I mean, really how many people that buy that hundred and $80,000, Mercedes ended up thinking that they got the short end of the stick, they're blown away by right? How many people buy that $15,000 Chevy Cruze and ended up angry and they're like, this is poor quality. But wait, wait, no, no, no, it's Mercedes who's who's greedy? No, Mercedes delivered an incredible product. And this could go in every industry, it can be. You know, I have a friend who does photography, and I recommended this stuff to her and all of a sudden, you she went, I forget what the rates are. But instead of doing like, hundred dollar photo shoots, she's doing like $600 photo shoots, same amount of time to shoot the photos, same quality that she was probably doing before, too, right? Well, no, like, her quality went up, because then she could buy better equipment. And then Edda in like, you know, all these peaks, so much claim, and she was charging 100 bucks or whatever, right? But nobody complains. And they're spending $600. Because they get an incredible product.

Chris:

Yeah. Because because people just they look at the price. And they say, can I afford it? They don't care about the price. Really. They just like, Well, can I afford 600 bucks or 100 bucks. And if you charge them 100 bucks, they expect your $600 value? It's like, why not just charge them the 600 then because then you're actually getting paid. It's kind of like, it very feels very much like when people are like, Oh, can you fix this or fix that? Or like, I have people come to me on Fiverr and be like, okay, you delivered the work, but actually, I want to change the script and like, then you're gonna have to order again. Because it's like, You expect me to do double the work. It's like, if you would have paid me double then I would have no problem or you wouldn't pay me more great. Yeah, let's do it. I've had people I've had people come to me and do that, where they you know that they could have paid $20 and they ended up paying me like over 100 and then they came back to me and they're, they're like, Hey, can you do this quick line takes me five minutes. And I'm like, Yeah, because you paid you paid you gave tips you gave me Things like Yep, let's go, you know, and amazing, amazing different will shift in focus, really. And that's for all you entrepreneurs and everyone else out there that is like thinking like, Oh, I got to charge as little as possible to make money, no, don't stop what you're doing, and charge what you're worth, charge what you're worth, charge what you're worth. And it's like, well, I don't know what I'm worth and worth my hour, no, you got to calculate profit, you got to calculate everything you're worth what you're worth. And if you charge it, you're going to find the right clients who can pay that amount and you're gonna have a more clients, happy business happy life,

Dylan Ogline:

what I would add is, it's not necessarily what you're worth, right? It's unique, you need to think of your your pricing, in terms of value. So in this is a lot easier to define. When you're talking about business to business, it's a little bit more difficult when you're like, when you're like the Mercedes, or you're like that photographer, where, you know, it's, it's, you know, there is no necessarily ROI or something like that. But you know, with with business, uh, I'll use my my particular example, you know, I have a digital marketing agency, and the way we charge our clients is we charge them 10%, and whatever their ad spend is, whatever we're managing, so that say that they spend, you know, $50,000 in a month, at the end of the month, we'll send them an invoice for $5,000. Okay, we might spend two hours managing there, as you know, once we get it going, like the time amount becomes becomes lower and lower as it gets better and better. But this use that example said the client spends $50,000, every industry is different, but let's just say that they get a five x return on on sales, okay, or 10 x return on sales. So they spend 50, they get $500,000 in sales, and they have a you know, 50% profit margin. So they're gonna make $250,000. All right, so they're going to spend $50,000 on ads. So now their profit goes from 250 to 200. And then they're also going to have to give me a check, give my company a check for five grand, so they're gonna make instead of $200,000 $195,000, do you think they give a damn about spending that $5,000?

Simon:

No,

Chris:

no, no, it's about value.

Dylan Ogline:

It's about the value. You know, they don't care. If I spent one minute on those ads, they care about what is the value that I got. And again, this is a lot easier when it's business to business. So if you have a podcast, and I knew nothing about this industry, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. But if you have a podcast where you manage it, which I don't know what all that service would entail, but you added it and you know, you make the promotions and you do this and you do that you write the show notes and all that stuff. And it costs $1,000 per episode. But because of that, the host because they're not doing all the work now, you know, they make, say $4,000 per episode in terms of ad revenue, or whatever. But because they're not taking all the time to manage it at all, and you're doing it now they're able to do two episodes a week instead of one, because they're saving all this time, right? So they do that. And now they're making $8,000 per week instead of $4,000 per week. Do you think they really care that they have to pay you $1,000? In episode? No, probably not. value.

Chris:

Amazing. Wow, another change our life's amazing this, this podcast marks the rest of our future. This was the one from here on out. This was the one always look back to unreleased data this and be like that was that was the one. That was the one deal.

Dylan Ogline:

No pressure, no pressure man.

Simon:

Dylan, it's been an absolute honor to have you on our show, and to have you share with us and our listeners, your key insights, it's producing a successful business model. I really feel like we've learned a whole lot. And there's no doubt that a lot of these principles that you've taught us today, we're definitely going to go forward and apply these. And you didn't mention earlier that you're not an expert, but I would still thank you for sharing your expertise on these things. Because Wow, just absolutely. Wow. Yeah. And if anyone in our audience is interested in working with you through your own digital agency, what's the best way to find you? How can they reach out to you? Sure,

Dylan Ogline:

sure. Well, first, thanks for thanks for having me on the show. Of course. If you're if you're you know, a business looking to to grow your online presence and specifically get more installed projects with digital direct response digital marketing. In my my agency website is Oakland digital.com. And then if you were looking to start your own, start and grow your own digital agency, I have a education company where I have a training program called agency 2.0 and that is on my personal website Dylan oakland.com.

Chris:

Both the links for this will be in the description for you guys to check out. So make sure you check the podcast description wherever you are listening. So we want to just let you guys know as well that if you want to keep in touch with us, first of all, join our discord and come and talk with us but Secondly, we have an app that's available on the Apple App Store and the Google Play store that you can download right now and stay in tune. And our link to our website is in the app itself. So if you ever want to find us or find out more information about what we do, maybe your podcasts, and you need some podcast management services. We got you covered. Check it out. It's called the Voice Box, podcast app, Google Play Store and the App Store. Dylan has been awesome having you here. And I'm sure our listeners have just been blown away. I know I have. So thank you again, so much for being on the show. Absolutely. Thanks

Dylan Ogline:

for having me.

Simon:

It's been an absolute pleasure, Dylan. And that's it for today's episode. Hopefully, you guys got some really beneficial information out of it. And remember, guys, you're always going to hear a novel perception while listening to their podcast.

Dylan's Story
Be Lean, Mean & Scrappy
The Challenge of Online Sales
Narrow It Down
Focus On Marketing
Does Your Product Fit the Market?
Charge Based On Value, Not Market Prices